For our next meeting, Tuesday 2/21, I would like for everyone to have read the short stories by O'Brien and Vonnegut. The Vonnegut text can be accessed via the Schedule, Readings, & Rubrics page by clicking the link embedded in the author's last name. Please print and annotate this text before bringing it to class Tuesday. Also before class meets, please submit your second e-journal response to the following prompt:
Draw a relationship between the two war stories written by O'Brien and Vonnegut. First, name one theme or element from each text that you found to be similar, thus making a comparison. Second, name one theme or element from each text that you found to be different, thus highlighting a contrast.
Lastly, express in a few sentences which story you responded to "more," and explain why in detail. Here are some general questions to guide you... Explain why you found a certain character compelling or troublesome? How were the stories' settings (both physical and mental) made vivid in your mind's eye as you read? Is there some personal connection to either of these texts?
Direct references to the readings are required, so be sure to cite page numbers when offering quotations or paraphrases.
When reading war theme novels, the readers are always reluctantly pulled back into some historical periods and evoked their rethinking about the significance of war and peace or even more. From O’Brien novel “The Things They Carried” and Vonnegut’s story “Wailing Shall be in All Street”, it is not hard to find out both authors have expressed their anti-war sentiments as well as their strong eager for love and peace. In “The Things They Carried”, Lieutenant Jimmy Cross shows his distracted attention in the war, he is an absent-minded lieutenant. He makes his day dream in the march on which he can’t concentrate. He carries Martha’s letters and has a pebble in his mouth which is Martha’s gift when he is in the march. As a soldier that must carry heavy loads, Jimmy carries these stuffs which seem not practical in the war. However, they are his spiritual sustenance which he relies on. Only with them can he temporarily release his depressed mind from the war which he is forced to serve. Jimmy’s day dream and a detailed description of the front-line infantry equipments are written alternately. Through this writing style, readers can deeply feel the burdens of the soldiers; that comes not only from the loads but also from inside. Jimmy’s day dream or absent mind are his evasion of the reality---he hates the war but he is trapped. “Wailing Shall Be in All Streets” is much like the author Kurt Vonnegut’s autobiographical novel. The first-person narrator gives readers a picture Dresden, a small town of German, is extremely destroyed after bombing in World War II. Rather than an American prisoner captured by German, the narrator stands on the neutral side to illustrate a woeful spectacle of Dresden, “a beautiful city, built in the art spirit, symbol of an admirable heritage” is bombed to be a bloody and desolate city full of dead bodies and debris (Frauenheim). Although the narrator commits “there can be no doubt that the Allies fought on the side right and the Germans and Japanese on the side of wrong”, he still feels “[he] would have given [his] life to save Dresden for the World’s generations to come” (Frauenheim). As a solider of victorious allies, the narrator doesn’t show any triumph, instead of that, he shows his sorrow and grief for the disaster the war brings. It can destroy anything beautiful and any life innocent.
ReplyDeleteIn the fiction “The Things They Carried”, Jimmy Cross blames himself deeply when his fellow Ted Lavender was shot. He thinks his negligence in duty causes the unforgivable result. As a lieutenant, Jimmy Cross “remind[s] himself that his obligation [is] not to be loved but to lead” (948). He has to perform like a leader in the battle where he is forced to come. He doesn’t have any other choice in a war. Readers can find war can overwhelm an individual’s personality, dream or privacy. As a solider, Jimmy has to abandon his personal emotion to fit his role in the war. After Lavender dies, Jimmy led his men into the village of Than Khe. “They burn everything…shot chickens and dogs…trash the village well” (942). They use a very cruel way to express the loss of fellow member but never think about what disaster they bring to other people. Through building Jimmy, this fictional character, readers can find war can distort normal personality. Readers’ emotion will change along with the character’s. Different from the change of Jimmy, the narrator of “Wailing Shall Be in All Streets”, he lets readers consider much more about the hurt which the war brings to both parties, the loss of the next generations. The story is much like a documentary to narrate a historical event but not to build any kind of character to let readers to be attracted.
DeletePersonally, I hate to read any novel or watch any movie about war. I hate this cruel, bloody, brutal and oppressive way to solve the problems in human beings. However, my idea is too naïve to be true. When I read “The Things They carried”, I can’t help memorizing when I traveled in Vietnam. I saw some pedlars were selling the personal belongings which were left by US soldiers on the road side. Each stuff has its own story. Perhaps there is something belongs to anyone like Jimmy or Lavender. The Royal Place in Vietnam is the most poor, empty and desolate place I have been on the world. It is not only the loss for Vietnam but also the loss for all of us. I can’t evaluate the war just like I can’t summarize these novels.
In the reading “The Things They carried” there are soldiers from different walks of life but they are so similar. “They carried all the emotional baggage of men who might die grief, terror and love”. They are fighting in a war, but the only things they could think about are their families and getting home to them. However, the lieutenant Jimmy Cross is in-gulf with emotional feelings towards his girl friend Martha that he left back home. These thoughts and feelings are a big distraction in how he is leads his platoon into battle. As you see later in the reading that one of his soldier was shot in the head. Was this the lieutenant’s fault? Could he have done something differently to avoid the killing of Ted Lavender? Probably not however, this is a feeling he will have to live with for the rest of his life. That is similar to the feeling Sammy will have to deal with. He assumed that George was the one who tipped off the Germans regarding the break, which resulted in the death of Jerry Sullivan. He did not see George do it but he and the other soldiers had a strong feeling that it was him. The Germans treated George like he was one of their own. They gave him cigarettes, food and water they even gave him change of clothes which they didn’t do for other prisoners. Was this enough suspicion to warrant the killing of George at the end of the reading? Even though, the major told Sammy that the US did not have anyone in the military by the name of George Fisher, he must have been from the German Intelligence. Would he be able to sleep at night knowing what he did, murdering an un-armed soldier?
ReplyDeleteJose Desilva
While reading both "Vonnegut and "The Things We carried" I saw several relationsips between the two wars. One was the two main characters George in "Vonnegut" and Lt.Jimmy Cross in "The Things We Carried" both had alternative motives through out the story. Lt.Cross was very focused on Martha that he could not consentrate on his men and their mission. Geroge in "Vonnegut" had his mind set on returning to the states and never being scene again. George preyed on Sammy because he knew he was a friend to him so he used him to get as close as he could to his dream of being free. I felt both characters only thought about themselves. Lt.Cross not being focused allowed for Ted Lavender to be killed. George felt that killing Jerry and taking his watch to some day use it for his way to freedom.
ReplyDeleteOne different element that I found while reading was the setting . One story took place in a prison while the other took place during the soldiers mission. Also,In "The Things We Carried" it explained each charaters in detail and what was inportant to them. In "Vonnegut" the decrpitions were very vage of each character. Also,the women in each story were explained differently. Martha in "The Things We Carried" was decribed more so we understood her back ground a little more. Betty in "Vonnegut was only spoken of once as if she did not matter or had no impact on George.
I responed to the story "Vonnegut". As I read the story the character George stood out to me. Throughout the story he was always alienated by everyone because of the way he treated people. It seemed like George was very nasty and trouble always followed him. Now,Sammy on the other hand despite what everyone thought about George he still became friends with George no matter what the other prisoners thought. As we saw at the end George really was not a friend to Sammy. He just wanted to get Sammy's by hiself to get his dog tags to free himself. All George ever thought about was himself. I have just experienced something similar with someone I thought was my friend for over eight years now. Just recently she showed me that she used me like George did Sammy for what she needed and then I was of no use anymore. Sammy at the end was able to end Georges life but, I am unble to do that. After reading these two stories it showed me that a persons focus and determination can hurt or even kill you.
When reading the story i felt that Jimmy cross was very in love with Martha and she didn't even know it.. She always sent him poetry that he looked forward to reading every night before he went to bed. He wanted a relationship with her. He was the lieuttenant in the army and all his men played different positions. Even though they all had different things that they carried and duties they had to be erform Jimmy didnt pay s much attention to his men as he should. He was very distracted by his feelings for Martha. When Ted Lavender was killed it did something to Jimmy. He was shocked that he was killed and blamed himself..If he would have been more of a leader that payed more attention that might have not happened. When your at war someone is bound to get shot and die but the lieutenant usually feels the worse because a relationship has been established with his soldiers.
ReplyDeleteI feel like Martha really kept his mind occupied and thats why certain parts of the story went in other directions.
One element that both stories have in common is the main characters, Jimmy Cross from “The Things They Carried” and Sam from ‘Just You and Me, Sammy”. These are two characters that struggle with different conflicts. In the case of Jimmy Cross, a soldier that felt in love with Martha, a college student. He is so obsess with her that he cannot think in anything else besides her. He daydreams with her and wishing that she stills virgin. The conflict begins when one of his soldiers died because he was not doing his job. Instead he was dreaming with Martha, imagining that he was with her. For this reason he feels guilty creating an internal conflict between his love for Martha and his feelings of guiltiness. In the case of Sam, a war prisoner who kills his partner George after having an argument with him. Sam did not have any feels of guiltiness for killing George. As he says, “What the hell, he was dead, and that was that, wasn’t? Who’d have benefited if I’d told them I shot George? My soul? George’s soul, maybe?”(p. 177). In other words, nobody cares for his partner’s death, not even him who was the murderer. Even though both characters stories are about wars, their settings are different. In “The Things They Carried”, the setting contains more blood, guns, men killed and towns destroyed as giving more reality to the war. On the other story the setting mostly takes place inside an empty house where people used to live before the war started. The story I responded more is “The Things They Carried” because the story contains a setting that transmits strong emotions and feelings. Just imagining the different guns, blood and dead people is emotionally strong for me. What came to my mind with this setting is, people fighting each other and innocent people dying.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading “Just You and Me, Sammy” by Kurt Vonnegut, and “The Things They Carried” by Tim O’Brien there are many elements that make the two war stories similar and different. In “Just You and Me, Sammy” Vonnegut introduces a character named Private George Fisher, while in “The Things They Carried” O’Brien introduces a character named Lieutenant Jimmy Cross. Both characters are similar in which they care for something else that is more important to them, which makes them selfish. In “Just You and Me, Sammy” George tries to use Sammy in order for him to gain his freedom and return to the states by trying to buy Sammy’s dog tags. While in “The Things They Carried” Jimmy focuses his mind set on his love for Martha then focusing on his men which is why Ted Lavender was dead. A difference I noticed in the two stories was the difference in what the characters had. In “Just You and Me, Sammy” the characters didn’t have nothing and were practically starving in prison, besides George. While in “The Things They Carried” O’Brien points out what each characters possession are. Lastly, I responded more to “Just You and Me, Sammy” by Kurt Vonnegut. The way George tried to use Sammy for a selfish reason is upsetting. George’s only intention was to get Sammy’s dog tag. “The thing is, Ill need a new name and dogtags to go with it. I like yours…” (Vonnegut 169). Today many people have “friendships” because they know the benefits that will come out of that friendship just like George tried using Sammy.
ReplyDeleteIn Tim O’Brien’s “The Things They Carried” Lieutenant Cross and his soldiers carried many objects, emotions and memories with them as they tried to survive during the Vietnam War. In Kurt Vonnegut’s “Just You and Me, Sammy” George carried his own emotions and lies about what his angle as to Sammy. In both stories the characters had to deal with physical and emotional burdens that were holding them back while they were at war. Lieutenant Cross’s carried the burden of his incompetence as the leader of the soldiers due to his obsession with Martha, a girl he loved who was thousands of miles away who did not love him back. His inability to focus on the war led to one of his soldiers Ted Lavender being killed unexpectedly. This soldier’s death added more burdens to Cross and he now felt guilty for letting his personal life distract him. George Fisher carried the burden of his lies which led to his death. He knew he was not an American soldier but a German soldier. While they were in prison he was living the life; bribing other soldiers for the things he wanted. George tried to be deceitful and bribe Sammy to give him his dog tags so that he could come to the United States because there was no other way he would be able to get in. He tried running the guilt trip on Sammy, bribing him with two hundred dollars and a watch but it did not work. George was so desperate and maybe if he were more pleasant during the eight months the American soldiers were in prison things would have turned out differently. In “The Things They Carried” the lieutenant let his burdens and the burdens of others get to him. Sammy on the other hand did not. Sammy did not seem remorseful or saddened by his actions and George Fisher’s death. Sammy didn’t seem to have any burdens and he wasn’t afraid to go to war and didn’t care what people thought about him unlike Lieutenant Cross.
ReplyDeleteThe story I identified with the most was “The Things They Carried”. It was more appealing to me because the story was told in a lot of detail and I was able to visualize my own picture of the war. I saw the setting in my head and the way the story was told it was as if I was carrying the things with them. I like the explanations of the lists of all the things everyone carried. Some of the things were necessary, some things were for comfort and some things were unnecessary, well at least in my opinion. In this story I was able to get a real idea of what being in a war zone is like. (Side note: as I was reading I kept thinking of the Disney movie “Mulan” for some odd reason).
The main idea and relationship of both short stories, Vonnegut “Just You and Me, Sammy” and Tim O’Brien “The Things They Carried” is the mindset of men who go to war in a foreign land and the longing for all things back home. Let us examine First Lieutenant Jimmy Cross. At the beginning, Lieutenant Cross is in conflict with himself. He is not accepting of his leadership position and the responsibilities for the war that he is fighting. In order to get away from the obligations of the War, Lieutenant Cross would daydream about Martha, whom he dated occasionally back home. She now corresponds with the lieutenant via letters, and it is these letters that takes the lieutenant away from his responsibilities. He imagines himself in love with Martha. He constantly thinks about all the things he should have done to her, and the things he would like to do to her. It is during one of these daydreams that one of his men is killed. At this point and time, he begins to reexamine himself and responsibilities, and decides to make a change. The element from the Vonnegut short story that is similar to that of O’Brien is Sammy’s desire for other things that blinded him to the fact of who and what George really was. “One nice thing about being half-starved, which I gather the lance corporal wasn’t, is that it’s hard to worry about anything but being half-starved”(158), said Sammy. All Sammy ever thought about was food. All the signs of who George was were ignore because of his hunger. And this nearly cost him his life. It was not until after he ate and satisfy his hunger that reality of who George Fisher really was started sinking in his brain and how intimidating and frightening George was. This is when fear set in for Sammy and he started putting all the pieces of the puzzle together, of who George is.
ReplyDeleteThe element that I found to be different in both short stories is the feelings these men have for the war they are fighting. Sammy believes that it is a privilege and an honor to be fighting for a reason, while Lieutenant Cross in “The Things They Carried” feels it is a duty.
Vonnegut’s story “Just You and Me, Sammy” was an easy read. It is one of those good mystery stories. I found the character of Sammy to be very compelling and troublesome all at once, and at the same time drawn to George Fisher. The story drew me in when George Fisher was introduced in the scene. I wanted to know who he was, because he sure enough was not one of them. It troubled me that Sammy was not able to read between the lines when it came to George. Hunger probably got the better of him. I was able to see the physical character of George through Sammy analogies of George. He equated him with food, for example “with his fat, pink sweaty face” (169), I see a pig in this analogy.
I see some personal connection to the text of Tim O’Brien “The Things They Carried”.
I am sometimes bugged down and humped over by all the unnecessary things I carry and worry about in my life. Life would be much easier if I prioritized the things in my life. As Lieutenant Cross was able to do after one of his men was killed.
A theme relating O’Brien’s story and Vonnegut’s story is war. Both stories revolve around a setting relating to war, therefore involving problems having to do with war. For example, George from Vonnegut’s story was trying to be freed without problems by pretending to be Sammy and in O’Brien’s story there was a problem involving Jimmy being distracted which resulted in one of his men to die. A difference between the two stories would have to be the setting and situation. Jimmy is an American soldier fighting in a war, as opposed to Sammy, another American soldier, who has been captured and taken in as a prisoner. As for the situation, Jimmy is still fighting in the war, but on Sammy’s end, the war is over. In both stories I found troublesome characters, but George from Vonnegut’s story is quite despicable. The way he tried to take Sam’s dog tags and the devious way he acted to get those dog tags was maddening. I feel like I responded to Vonnegut’s story more just because of the situation going on with Sam and George. I do not have a personal connection to this type of situation but to imagine being in a situation like Sam with a person like George would make anyone angry.
ReplyDeleteAccording to both literary works, “Just you and Me, Sammy” written by Vonnegut and “The Things They Carried” written by O’Brien share a similar theme and relationship. Both stories deal with men going to war in other foreign countries but missing and wanting to return back to their home lives. They both struggle with trying to stay focused. In “The Things They Carried” Lieutenant Cross experienced a man vs. self conflict. He did not want to own up to his position of being a leader, in order to escape from his responsibilities’ he would day dream about a girl who he used to date back home named Martha. Martha keeps in touch with Cross by sending him letters which distracted him from his obligations in the war. He is constantly imagining himself with Martha and falling in love with her. He also envisions all that he should have done to her back home and also what he would like to do now. During one of his distracting visions one of his soldiers are killed. After this point of the story Jimmy Cross feels guilty and decides to change himself. This is similar to “Just you and Me, Sammy because in both stories both main characters were not living in reality. In Just you and Me, Sammy, George to be someone else he is distracted from the truth. He was escaping from his real life problems by pretending to be Sammy.
ReplyDeleteThe differences between the two stories would have to be the way the main characters went about escaping from reality. For example, in The Things They Carried Jim Cross escaped from reality by dreaming and imagining being with Martha, and on the other hand George escaped from reality by portraying himself as Sammy. Someone who he wasn’t.
The book that I connected to the most was Just you Me, and Sammy because in high school I did research on a theme that was similar to this book. I did a study on an online game called “SecondLife” Secondlife is a game where people can create an avatar and create them in an image that they would want to be. This game is similar to Just You Me, and Sammy because in my research it showed that many people play this game in order to escape real life conflicts and issues so they pretend to be someone else. Just like George did.
The first thing that came to mind when I read the passages was that it all seemed to have happened in another era. An era that I almost have no clue about. Reading the two passages, I saw some relationships between the wars that occured. Starting with the characters of lieutenant cross and George. They both had different reasons for wanting the war to end. Lieutenant cross had his heart set on Martha that he could not give his undivided attention to his soldiers and their mission which led to the death of Ted lavender. George from the other story on the other hand wanted nothing more than to return to the united states and never to be seen again. In order for his dream to come true, he decided to use his friend sammy to achieve his dream even though he was later killed by sammy. Both characters were selfish even though the lieutenant was remorseful When ted died.
ReplyDeleteThe difference I noticed in both stories was the setting, even though they were both about war. The setting in "the things they carried" was more filled with blood, guns, the destruction of towns and all these made the war? seem more real. On the other hand, the other story's setting was more like inside an empty house where people lived before the war began.
the story I related more to was the " the things they carried" story because it was so real and I felt every emotion that was conveyed by the writer. It made me feel grateful for the life I have now and the era I was born into. I'm very grateful that I'm not involved in any wars!!
I read both stories “The Things they Carried” and “Just You and Me,Sammy”. Both of these stories had similar settings of a war. The things that carried were a story of a group of men in war, Just you me and Sammy was the story of prisoner of war. Both stories had a tunnel that had a dramatic impact on the men. In the things they carried by Tim O’Brien Ted Lavender had survived his traumatic experience in the tunnel and were alive to tell its tails. Unfortunately, Jerry from Just you and me and Sammy died and was not able to tell his story. Both stories had a dramatic impact on characters within the story due to the deaths that occurred.
ReplyDeleteIn both stories it was about men that were placed in leadership roles with different goals. However, the death of their men had impacted them differently. Jerry Cross carried the burden of the death of his men feeling that his day dreaming had caused the death of his men and George Fisher didn’t show any remorse. However, it later implied that George had him killed for his grandfather’s watch and also he was a Germany soldier trying to use Sammy identity to get to the United
States.
In the two war stories, I saw that they both dealt with soldiers who missed things about their homeland. Wanting the war to be over already so that this life of fear and uncertainty can be over. Both stories had a turning point when a soldier from out of the group was killed by the enemy and with their death brought a realization. While O’Brian’s story dealt more with love that wasn’t mutual and the missions of these travelling soldiers, Vonnegut’s story was about skepticism, doubt, betrayal and murder. O’Brien’s story was more uplifting and hopeful while Vonnegut’s story had the readers expecting a dark turn of events. I found Vonnegut’s story to be more compelling. I was able to follow it better and because of that I found the story line to be very interesting. The character George was very peculiar and strange and he seemed very off. For someone who didn’t really care about the people around him, I found his intentions and motives to be selfish and wicked. The setting in the stories allowed me to place myself in the midst of the characters. I felt the darkness of the cave, the sadness of the soldiers when Lavender and Jimmy died, the liquor bottle shattering and pouring its contents onto the floor. The sensory details were very vivid. Vonnegut allowed me the reader to see the scene play out in my mind and it seemed so real. One section in particular was when he writes, “George yanked me back from the window, and pushed me against the wall. "This is it, all right!" he said. His face was filled with terror. He held a pistol against my chest. George clawed at my dogtag chain, snapped it with a quick jerk.” (172). I can definitely relate with homesickness and nostalgia due to me going away to college 7 hours away from home in 2009 but maybe not to the extent of the soldiers. They were faced with fear of death and capture, elements of war that I never had to endure.
ReplyDeleteWhile reading both short stories “The Things They Carried” by O’Brien and “Just You and Me, Sammy by Vonnegut, I saw several relationships as well as differences. The theme that both short stories shared that is similar is survival. In both “The Things They Carried” and Just You and Me, Sammy, the main characters (Lieutenant Cross and Sam Klienhans) objective is to return home safely. Although each character may want to return home for two different reasons each character finds way to survive. In O’Brien’s short story, Lieutenant Cross wants to return home in order to be reunited with a woman name Marta, who he is overly infatuated with. He becomes distracted and falls into a state of escapism, where he is lusting and day dreaming about Marta, continuously throughout the story. However at some point Cross gets out of this state after one of his men dies and burns Marta letters along with photo. He is now determined to perform his duties firmly and without negligence (p. 947). His focus now is not to necessarily return to Marta but to make sure all of his men survive. In Vonnegut story, Sam Klienhan focuses on not being killed by the Russians and by the head American of the prison camp Private George Fisher. Becoming the last two men standing Sam realized that he did not only have to be careful of the Russians but also George who tries to kill him and steal his identity. Not knowing weather Cross accomplished his goal, it is read that Sam Klienhans makes it back to America safely.
ReplyDeleteAlthough we see many similarities besides survival there is a difference in theme/element. In the short story by O’Brien, Lieutenant Cross and his men had plenty of resources compared to the resources Sam and George had. This also can be caused by the setting of the story. While both stories are war stories, O’Brien’s characters are actually out in the field where they are giving resources from a chopper that comes to help the men replenish their things. Meanwhile Vonnegut story takes place in a prison camp where their mean of resources is through trading.
Taking a look at all characters in both short stories we can all say that there is at least one character we can respond to more than the others. In the short story “The Things They Carried” I responded more to Lieutenant Cross. I understood his state throughout the story because I too have been a victim of escapism. In story it took a death in order for Cross to realize how distracted he was becoming and that he needed to delay his gratification to make sure that him and his men could survive. I too have been in situations where I had to have a delay my gratification in order to become focus and change certain behaviors or even thoughts. As Cross began to day dream about Marta there was even a time where I too began to imagine what the setting looked like and while he spoke about Marta and I also started to envision my own Marta (male imagine) allowing me to not only to read the words but to also feel what Cross was feeling.
Both texts, “Just you and Me, Sammy” by Vonnegut and “The things they carried” by O’Brien somehow were similar in a way by setting themselves under a war situation. In a story “Just you and Me, Sammy” by Vonnegut, Private George Fisher was a soldier who was seen disturbed and concerned over his life and freedom even though they won the war against Germans. He feared that he would not be able to make into states safely and will be killed by Russians. Unfortunately George shows his selfishness and tries to convince Sammy to forget himself for a while and pretend that he has lost his memory, mean while George will use his tag to reach States. At first
ReplyDeleteSammy thought it would be a good thing to help out old George but later he remembers the face of his dead fellow Jerry Sullivan and refuses to make any deal with him. This resulted George to force Sammy but in the end Sammy wins the war by killing George with the rifle he found and falsely confessed in American lines that he accidentally killed himself. Similarly, In O’Brien
story “The things they carried”, Lieutenant Jimmy Cross was a soldier who used to carry letters from a girl named Martha. They were not even love letters but he still hopes they are, so he use to keep them save at bottom of his rucksack. He use to daydream about her every time and wasn’t focus on doing his job. Later in the story he was wracked with guilt because he believes that his absorption with his unreturned love for a girl name Martha has caused the death of one of his fellow soldier Ted Lavender. Carrying an emotional baggage of men who just died, lieutenant was now determined to perform his duties firmly and without negligence, so he decides to tear all the letters and photos that would remind him of his love. Both Authors of the texts have played similar concept to end up the stories with a meaningful status. “If you keep playing self-centeredness than you will surely loose someone or someone will surely loose you.” The difference between these two stories would be the setting and a conflict, where Jimmy cross accepts his mistake and agrees to give up his love for a war, Whereas, on the other hand George Fisher, who was trying to escape from the war ended up dying by his fellow soldier Sammy due to his own greediness. I guess the character “Sammy” from Vonnegut’s story was compelling because at first he tried to help out George and calm him down “Take it easy, George. Nobody’s going to try and hang you”(p. 168) but unfortunately Georges determination towards his death was firmly strong which ended up him dying. I think I have some personal connection with “Just you and Me, Sammy” by Vonnegut because in my life since childhood I have broke up and rebuilt friendships with a lot of people due to same reason of their “Greediness and selfishness”.
In the stories, “The Things They Carried” and “Just You and Me Sammy,” occurred during different timings of war. In O’Brien’s story, they soldiers were currently taking part in war, while in Vonnegut’s story the war was ended for the soldiers, but one thing both stories shared in common was the soldiers’ need to get out the war, to go back to normal lives, to the simple pleasures and luxuries of their lives before the war.
ReplyDeleteEven though both stories are about war, they are different in nature in regards to the relationship among the soldiers. In the story “The Things They Carried,” the soldiers shared more of a brotherhood kind of relationship than the soldiers from the story in “Just You and Me Sammy.” Their Lieutenant Jimmy Cross from O’Brien’s story was a bit more compassionate versus Private George Fisher from Vonnegut’s story, who seemed to be inconsiderate and selfish. Even though Jimmy Cross was constantly daydreaming about Martha, with whom he felt very much in love, which often distracted him from performing his soldierly duties; he was able to pull himself together and focus on his responsibilities as a Lieutenant after the death of one of his men – Ted Lavender which he felt a lot of guilt and responsibility for. On the other hand, George from Vonnegut’s story did not mind using the soldiers for his own selfish motives. In fact, he should have been held accountable for the death of Jerry Sullivan which he could have prevented from occurring based on the description of the circumstances in the story, since it seems as though he intentionally neglected to take certain actions that could have prevented Sullivan’s death from occurring. However, he carried out one part of his diabolical plot, but Sammy never gave him the chance to finish the other part, his life was cut short just as Sullivan’s life was.
The story I responded to more was Vonnegut’s story, because it held my attention and interest. The writer was very vivid in displaying the details which stimulated my imagination by allowing me to visually walk through the details of the story. The story built up a certain amount of suspense and mystery, which revealed certain things at the end making it more interesting, also leaving the reader with questions. I can’t say that I have some sort of personal connection to this text, but it does remind me that in many situations regardless of what the setting is, you will always encounter deceitful and selfish people. You should be careful in discerning between them and the genuine ones.
Though both of the stories “Just You and Me, Sammy” and “The Things they Carried” are focused on the theme of war and contain some similar elements, they also differ in many ways. In “Just You and Me, Sammy” by Kurt Vonnegut, American solider Sam Kleinhans (Sammy) narrates his experience of returning home after World War II, after being on a German prison camp. Sammy’s experience is revolved around his relationship with Private George Fisher. Private George is introduced into the story as a red-headed, heavy set, outcast on the camp who seems to receive better treatment from the guards than the rest of prisoners. While waiting for the Russians to come to the camp Sammy and George begin to converse and as time passes on George becomes more and more “friendly” to Sammy, even though Sammy never trusted George’s new character, he couldn’t figure out why George was acting the way he was. Sammy learns it’s because George needs his tags to get to the U.S, George even bribes him with money and jewelry for them. By the end of the story we learn that George was never an American solider but was actually working for the Germans. The story “The things they carried” by Tim O’Brien differs entirely in setting and situation. The main character, Jimmy Cross is a Lieutenant in the Vietnam War whom is constantly distracted by his thoughts of a woman named Martha. It becomes clear that though is madly in love with her he knows that she doesn’t feel the same. Still he cannot seem to stop day dreaming about her, he repetitively analyzes the letters she writes and things they spoke about. His mind is always wrapped around the way she signs her letters to wondering if she’s a virgin to the future he fantasies with her. When solider, Lavender is shot and killed due to Lieutenant Cross’s irresponsibility he realizes just how much his day dreams are affecting him and impacting his duties. He burns Martha’s letters and photographs based on the guilt of Lavenders death and after experiencing a moment of self-realization. Lieutenant Jimmy Cross eventually comes to the conclusion that he must let Martha go and instead gain responsibility, become a better leader and lead his troop home. From both of the stories the similar theme or main idea that arises is that though these men are or were a part of a War,( a situation where the whole means more than the individual) their personal guilt and burdens get the best of them and cause them to momentarily lose some sense of control. In “Just You and Me, Sammy” Private George’s burden of his secrets eventually lead to his death. In “The things they carried” Lieutenant Cross’s burdens of Martha unfortunately lead to the death of someone else. The deaths that occurred in both stories whether it was Jerry Sullivan and George in Vonnegut’s, or Lavender in O’Brien’s both revealed the element of survival and realizations. I personally, responded more to Vonnegut’s “Just You and Me Sammy” not because I connected to the theme but to how the theme was composed within the story. Though the way it was written had an simplistic tone it created a greatly vivid image for me as though Sammy was right there explaining his experiences with me, and his lessons learned.
ReplyDeleteThe Things They Carried by Tim O’Brien and Just You and Me, Sammy by Kurt Vonnegut both narrates Soldiers interpretation of war. The stories highlighted the similarities in which the soldiers dealt with fear, grief, isolation and hardships they experienced at war. In The Things They Carried “men killed, and died because they were embarrassed not to. It was what had brought them to war in the first place, nothing positive , no dreams, of glory or honor, just to avoid the blush of dishonor”(pg 945).O’Brien is referring to the emotional burden the soldiers hide inside themselves because they do not want to be seen as a coward by others. In Just You and Me Sammy, Private George Fisher told Sammy “Being a collaborator- that’s treason ain’t it? They can hang you for that, can’t they?”(pg.168). Because of his fear of being branded a traitor, he wanted to kill Sammy and take his place.
ReplyDeleteThe differences between the two stories are the setting. In The Things They Carried, the soldiers were fighting in the war. They were constantly moving from place to place carrying their physical and emotional burdens from one town to the next. In Just You and Me, Sammy the soldiers were in a prison camp and only carried their emotional burdens. Unlike the soldiers in O’Brien story who “carried hot chow in green marmite cans and large canvas bags filled with iced beer and soda pop” (pg 941), and received “fresh watermelons…..sunglasses and woolen sweaters” (pg 942) the soldiers in Vonnegut story was half-starved. According to Sammy “Everybody but George had been living on potatoes for eight months” and he compared them to “drowsy scarecrows” (pg. 159). Both showcased different experiences of war.
The things they carried were more visual to me because it showed that everyone has responsibilities in life. My mother’s passing has mad me a reluctant head of household and my family all look to me for guidance. Eventually I realize that their respect and trust for me is what keeps them coming for my advice. In the beginning, Lt. Jimmy Cross was unwilling to lead his team of soldiers because he was not interested in the war. All he wanted to do was think of Martha. The senseless death of Ted Lavender left him with so much guilt, he woke up to the reality that he needed to forget about Martha and concentrate on the becoming a strong leader for his troops. In some ways letting go of the burden we carry makes us better humans.
They both share the theme of death and war. Both stories took place in times of war and both main characters played a role in the war one was a soldier and the other was a lieutenant. The stories also had a soldier dead and this affected both main character in their separate stories. In “Just You and Me, Sammy” by Kurt Vonnegut the character Jerry Sullivan was the person who was decided, this played a major role in the story because his death was the central conflict between Sammy and George; this could be inferred because George says “O.K., go ahead and say I got him killed. That’s what you’re thinking, so go ahead and say it” (170) it shows how George’s reputation or maybe conscious has development him into a character of mistrust and almost evil compared to Sammy who remains reserved and reasonable throughout the reading. Death is present in Tim O’Brien’s “The Things They Carried” because in the story the main character Lieutenant Jimmy Cross feels immense guilt over the death of Ted Lavender “Lavender was dead. You couldn’t burn the blame” (946) this was the height of his change and he went from being a dreamer to changing into one of utmost serious nature. They differ by one having a theme of love and the other of friendship. Tim O’Brien’s “The Things They Carried” had Jimmy in love with a girl who never expressed his same feelings towards her to him. This love interest goes from dreaming of her to him finally letting her go and putting his leadership role in the fore front of things that are important to him, this can be symbolized by the pebble she gave him through the mail that he later discarded once his feelings completely changed at the end of the reading. In “Just You and Me, Sammy” the story was revolved around a friendship that was forced and based on delusions. Sammy was dragged into this complicated friendship by George who claimed “Redheads ought to stick together” (165) the reading “Just You and Me, Sammy” I responded more because it was more dynamic in terms of storytelling. It had more dialogue and I really got a sense of the characters and thought they were more in depth in personalities versus the other reading “The Things They Carried”.
ReplyDeleteBased on the two readings of “The Things They Carried” by O’Brien and “Just You and Me, Sammy by Vonnegut. Both stories shared a similar theme of soldiers who had to over come a dilemma which would in the end help them survive their battles, whether it was personal or peer to peer. For example Lieutenant Cross’s battle was more of a personal battle of him not forgiving his love for Marta and the death of his solider Ted Lavender. However Sammy battle was with George.
ReplyDeleteAs for the other character George fisher , he was a solider who’s emotional burden of what people thought of him got in the way of his self-esteem. The difference amongst the two stories is the problems they face, one had to deal with overcoming his insecurities and the other had to do with survival before someone destroys you. In both cases I can relate to this stories, because I too have similar conflict in a fear of acceptance by other people. However, I was always taught from a child to not let one determine your destiny and only you can decide how hard you'll fight your battles, whether it be mentally or physically. Overall I believed thats the role these characters in each stories believed was based on believing how they can over come their battles.